For the past two weeks, my life has been smothered with the question: are you a cessationist or a charismatic?
It all started when I began to read one of my dad's books, Who's Afraid of the Holy Spirit? The first chapter deals with 11 theses on how cessationists and charismatics need to change. As a rough definition, cessationists believe that certain spiritual gifts brought on by the Holy Spirit (namely speaking in tongues, performing miracles, and faith healings) no longer exist (or at least are no longer at the will of one person) and died out after the last apostle died. Charismatics believe that all the spiritual gifts are alive and well and can be encompassed in one person. My dad is a cessationist. I am a cessationist (in as much as I have studied this past fortnight; the title was a stupid joke, not a mistake). Now, don't let me get you confused thinking that cessationists believe that healing no longer occurs, or that God no longer performs miracles. It is simply the idea that the Holy Spirit works through all of us, is occasionally prompted by prayer, and no longer gives these gifts to individuals to perform these things at will.
But, now is not the time for my take on this subject. I am currently forming my opinion on this subject and would like all of your input. I will answer any questions I can from my view point (seeing as I am the only cessationist I know in my age group). If you want, I can post some inputs from my dad. Also, I am going home in a couple weeks and sitting down to talk with him about the subject, so, if I can't answer stuff, I'll be sure to ask him. A good beginning point to think of is, if these gifts still exist, where were they during what is considered the second biggest event in Christian history (post resurrection), the Reformation?
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Can I be a charismationist? Or a cessismatic? Or perhaps a Cessarian? I could go on, but I won't.
This is a really interesting topic. What do you think is at stake in this issue?
I hesitate to admit this, but I think a large part of my bias against cessasionism and dispensationalism is my bias against living in Dallas and going to DTS.
That said, here a couple of thoughts (perhaps for the sake of thought). I think a large reason we don't see true miracles today (in Western culture) is that our "prove it" culture would ignore them or explain it away. The reason I say this is because the current philosophical position of our culture seems to be "assume a naturalistic explanation to any unexplainabe event".
I have heard stories about miracles worked in other cultures; And as far as my eyes and ears are concerned, all they are are stories. But among tribal cultures where a myriad of gods ar e in action perhaps the greatest testament to the sovereignty of YHWH is a miracle. (I think of Moses appearing to Pharoah with the staff/snake and nasty/clean hand) Some cultures on this earth today are not far removed from the ways of these ancients.
I have not studied Dispensation/Covenental/whatever else there is. My problem with I hesitate to put limits on God's interaction with humankind. Now, if God Himself decides to limit the work of His Spirit to purely spiritual means without a physical manifestation, that is certainly His perogative. So far, I am unconvinced He has done this, and I'm not willing to do it for Him.
Cabe -
Yes, I suppose you can be a combination of both, but doesn't that just mean you don't have balls? I think what's at stake here is nothing crucial. But as we get into this postmodern era that seems to take personal experience and use it as a higher source than the Word, we need to be prepared to battle that.
Hoose -
I hate Dallas, but I don't hate DTS. Dallas Stars and Mavericks still rule. But, in my cessationist belief, I think it is putting more of a limit on God to say he uses specific people to perform signs at their will. Rather, I believe the Holy Spirit goes through us all. As far as the miracles thing, water into wine, raising the dead, and healings so powerful, just to be in the disciples shadow would heal you. These are miracles of the Bible. These are things that can't be explained.
A lot of people have a problem with cessationists because they think that cessationists believe God is changing, which the Bible clearly says He is not. However, the Bible never says God's methods don't change. That's simply what I'm saying. The Holy Spirit no longer indwells people to write Scripture. That's a change in method. That, everybody believes. So, why couldn't He change His method here too?
How will these issues help to fight postmodernism? What do you do with personal experience? Don't my experiences carry some truth in them? And is Christianity a system only of the Enlightenment and western dualism, or do we have some critique to offer modernity and western thought as well? Might then we use the movement of postmodernity as an aid by which we might be freed from the bonds of western philosophy, not by any means to become purely postmodern, but to remember that we should be a little of both, but fully neither?
Andude: I like the distinction you make that cessationist POV is not about God changing, but that there’s no reason to think God’s methods can’t. However, the starting point for cessationism still sounds to me like an earthbound argument: as if its easier to imagine God behaving like we do- in the realm of logic and the expected, instead of seeing humans empowered as sons and heirs of a Heavenly Father, not an earthly one.
My opinion here will come off as entirely unresearched, because it is, but all I know, is that hearing my grandparents (former missionaries) talk about all the things they believe only applied to people 2,000 years, makes me sad, depressed and want to say “Well, there’s a convenient justification for your apathy. No wonder you sit alone all day getting more depressed and lonely. There are no miracles in your reality, and God has no use for you now that you “can’t” preach.” (I know cessationism doesn't say miracles don't exist, but all the cessationists I know, do).
Then I see the hope and passion of my charismatic friends, or even of my mom, who saw her name written in the clouds one day when she was on the point of basically wanting to drive over a cliff- and I see no benefit in trying to quantify and disregard their experiences of the Holy Spirit’s presence for the sake of my own comfort. Yes, being around people speaking in tongues has made me uncomfortable, but how comfortable was Moses on Mt. Sinai? Should we ever expect (or demand) personal comfort in the presence of the Creator of the universe?
I guess my experience of charismatic faith has never seemed like people exhibiting spiritual gifts “at their own will” or at least not in any different way then those who “use” their ability to teach, listen to or love people in a way that invites God’s presence and truth into people’s lives. The idea that people use gifts of tongues or healing as if “performing at their own will” seems like such an odd point of contention for me. What do we gain from denying the Holy Spirit’s ability to work through an individual, other than to feel better about ourselves if we’re not the ones with the “flashier” ways of communicating with God.
I realize my comments here seem pretty one-sided and not based in a conversant understanding of cessationism, but basically, I’m saying that in the big picture context, I’d rather believe God chooses to use the Holy Spirit in individuals AND corporately in vastly indefinable or controllable ways- rather than looking for reasons why God wouldn’t.
In regards to Hoose’s thoughts about this issue in non-western cultures, I have a lot of opinions about this, but have already written way too much. The rest feels kind of hard to type about.
andude-
a couple of thoughts,
1. Lets say for the sake of argument that the spiritual gift of healing is still in effect and I have this gift. If I someone needs a healing from God and I attempt to be a conduit, how is that different than one with the spiritual gift of teaching delivering a biblical sermon. The result of being faithful in using our gifts is entirely reliant on the Holy Spirit. Whether the Holy Spirit flows through me to heal a man or the Holy Spirit flows through me to use my teaching to repent and cling to God, it is dependant on Him and not men "performing signs at their will".
2. Interesting point about the Holy Spirit no longer indwelling men to write Scripture. I will concede that it seems that God employs different methods at different times. But, I'm not sure that we can unilaterally say that 6 weird spiritual gifts have ceased while the 12 boring ones are still going on. (i say this in jest, for those who don't know me)
3. The casting out of demons may be a different issue than ceasing of spiritual gifts, because i'm not sure thats considered a "gift". But if you say that we can't cast out demons today, isn't that almost saying the demons don't exist anymore, because what else do we do with them?
What do you guys think about demons and the like?
Is the only argument against charismatics the fact that they lack evidence?
If so, that's a pretty weak argument. Considering two people can see the exact same event and intrepert what happened in completely different ways. How do we decide which one is right since we cannot definitively rule out the idea of it being a miracle? Doesn't it just come down to faith and what you believe in.
On a lighter note, I went to this charismatic fellowship twice, and it kind of freaked me out at first. But it was so intriguing, the main pastor there used to be a prof at DTS. However, since he wouldn't sign this piece of paper denying certain spiritual gifts, the weight of demons and other controversial stuff, they had to fire him.
Andude, does your dad know him?
Do you think DTS was right in doing that?
ps. Drew if you're reading this or anyone else that knows. Is Drew quitting staff?
Good post.
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